This excerpt from Simba Qiang Zhuo’s book "Walking with the Legend" is a personal account of his journey in wildlife conservation. It chronicles Simba's interactions with legendary conservationists such as George Schaller and Tony Fitzjohn, highlighting their influence on Simba's career and the importance of global collaboration in wildlife protection. Simba emphasizes the impact of these figures, illustrating how their dedication to field research and cultural understanding has inspired him to address global issues like habitat loss and human-wildlife conflict. The text also explores the significance of Simba's personal experiences in Africa and China, emphasizing the need for a multidisciplinary approach to conservation.
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Machine transcription with names checked by hand. Small errors may remain; the audio is the record.机器转写，人名地名已人工校对，可能仍有少量误差，以音频为准。
0:00Okay, so today we're diving deep into the world of wildlife conservation with a true legend, George B. Schaller. Now, you might not recognize the name right away, but in the world of wildlife conservation, this guy's a rock star. We're talking mountain gorillas, Bengal tigers, you name it, Schaller's studied them all, especially the ones most of us only get to see in zoos. - Right, and what's incredible about Schaller is that he wasn't just content with observing these animals from a distance. he wanted to understand them on their own terms in their natural habitats. Which is no easy feat, let me tell you. - No kidding. So how do we even begin to unpack the life and work of someone like Schaller? Or lucky enough to have someone here who actually knew the man personally, Simba King-Zuo.
0:43Now Simba himself is a bit of a legend in the conservation world. This is a Chinese wildlife expert who ended up dedicating his life to protecting African lions. Talk about following your passion. - Yeah, it's remarkable, isn't it? And Simba's actually written a book about his experiences with Schaller, walking with the legend it's called. Plus he's directed some incredible documentaries, Lionheart and Return of the King. And if that wasn't enough, he's also a leading expert with the International Union for Conservation of Nature, the IUCM. - Okay, so we're talking about someone with serious credentials here. So what I'm really curious about is this connection between Schaller and Simba. You've got this renowned scientist who practically wrote the book on field research. And then you have Simba who grew up fascinated by these creatures.
1:25a fascination that literally led him from China to the savannas of Africa. It's almost like their paths were destined to cross. - You know, that's exactly what it feels like when you hear their stories. It's as if some invisible force kept drawing them together. Simba talks about these crazy coincidences that kept happening, almost like fate was weaving their lives together. - Okay, I have to hear about this. What kind of coincidences are we talking about? - Well, for starters, Simba was obsessed with tigers as a kid, actually even considered studying them in northeast China before eventually focusing on lions. And guess what? Schaller spent a huge part of his career researching Bengal tigers in India. - Whoa, hold on.
2:06So they were both captivated by big cats even early on. - It's mind-blowing, right? And it gets even weirder. - Okay, you're killing me. Lay it on me. - So Simba mentions this movie "Born Free." Absolutely loved it growing up. You know that one with George Adamson, the conservationist? - Yeah, vaguely. - Well, Adamson actually knew Schaller. - No way. - Yeah. - Simba actually got to visit some of the places where they filmed that movie. Talk about a full circle moment. - Seriously, it's like they were meant to follow in each other's footsteps. - And here's the real kicker, Tarzan of the Apes, the book. Huge inspiration for both of them. - You're kidding me. - Nope, both Schaller and Simba were captivated by this fictional character who lived in harmony with wild animals.
2:46It's incredible how a story like that could spark such a deep passion for the natural world. It's like that spark was already there just waiting for the right story to ignite it. And for both of them, it sounds like that story was Tarzan. - You know, it makes you wonder about the power of stories, how they shape our understanding of the world and even inspire our life's work. - Sure. - And you know, this actually ties into a crucial aspect of both Scholar and Simba's careers. Conservation isn't just about the science, it's about connecting with people, understanding their cultures and building relationships. - It's about the human element just as much as the animal one. - Exactly. And these fascinating terralels in their journeys, they highlight just how crucial that human element really is.
3:29- So let's talk about that human element then. What can we learn from Schaller and Simba's approach to conservation, especially when it comes to working with people? - Well, I think one of the most important lessons we can take away is that when you're trying to protect a species, you're not just dealing with the animal itself, you're also dealing with the people who live alongside it. They're challenges, they're livelihoods, their perspectives. - Right, like you can't just swoop in with all the scientific knowledge in the world. - Ah! - And expect everyone to be on board immediately. - Exactly, and Schaller understood this from the very beginning. He wasn't just this brilliant scientist. He was also incredibly gifted at building bridges with local communities, respecting their knowledge and finding common ground.
4:10- And I imagine that was crucial to his success, especially when studying animals in such remote and culturally diverse places. - And it's something Simba experienced firsthand too. - Oh, how so? Well, as you can imagine, being a Chinese conservationist working in Africa, it wasn't always easy for Simba to gain people's trust. Yeah, I can see how that might be a challenge. There was definitely some skepticism at first, people questioning why he'd dedicate his life to protecting lions so far from home. That makes sense. That sounds like he persevered. He did. And I think having Shiller's support, knowing he had faced similar challenges throughout his career, it meant the world to Simba. It's like having a mentor who truly gets it.
4:51Exactly. Sheller really paved the way for a new generation of conservationists like Simba, proving that it's not about where you're from, but about your dedication to the cause. And that dedication to the cause often requires a global effort, right? Especially when you're talking about protecting animals that migrate across borders or face threats on an international scale. Absolutely. And Sheller was a huge advocate for international collaboration. If you recognize that protecting species like gorillas, tigers, and elephants, it requires a global team effort. So it's like conservation is a team sport, in a way. Precisely. And both Schaller and Simba really embody that spirit of collaboration.
5:31And it all circles back to those connections, right? The ones that brought Schaller and Simba together in the first place. It's funny you should mention connections, because guess what else we stumbled upon while researching this deep dive. Okay, now you're just messing with me. How many more coincidences can there be? You're not going to believe this. But Schaller actually spent a considerable amount of time studying giant pandas in Sichuan, China. Wait a minute. You mean Sichuan where Simba's family is from? The one and only. You can't make this stuff up. What are the odds? Right. It's just another one of those mind-blowing connections that makes their story so unique. So Schaller was in Simba's backyard, so to speak, long before they ever met. Exactly. Schaller's research on pandas took him deep into their mountainous habitat, working directly with local communities to understand these elusive creatures.
6:17That's incredible. And get this, he even worked in Teng Jiehe, which is now part of the giant panda national park. Are you serious? Simba actually visited that very place. He even saw pictures of Shala and his wife Kay from their time there. No way! Talk about a trip down memory lane. It's like these two were destined to walk parallel paths, even if they didn't realize it at the time. It's truly remarkable, and it wasn't just pandas and tigers that fascinated them both. They shared this deep passion for all sorts of big cats, lions, jaguars, snow leopards, these majestic creatures that capture our imaginations and highlight the delicate balance of our planet's ecosystems. It's like they saw something in those animals, something that spoke to their sense of adventure and their desire to protect the wild.
7:02It's a question worth pondering, isn't it? What is it about these animals that spark such dedication in people like Shalor and Simba? it's their majesty or their elusiveness or the vital role they play in their ecosystems, whatever it is, both men recognize their importance and they dedicated their lives to understanding and conserving them. And they understood that this work wasn't just about the science, it was about changing hearts and minds. And speaking of changing hearts and minds, Simba talks about how instrumental Schaller's wife Kay was in his work. She wasn't just a supportive spouse, she was a vital part of his research expeditions, often accompanying him to some of the most remote corners of the world. Absolutely. K's contributions are a great reminder that...
7:44Oh, wow. That's heartbreaking. It is. It just goes to show how precious these connections are. And the legacy people like K leave behind. But even with that sadness, there's still this powerful thread of inspiration that runs through Simba's story. He talks about meeting shallower sons, who grew up immersed in their parents' passion for wildlife. Yes. One of his sons, Eric, he actually followed in his father's footsteps, became a professor of life sciences that even co-authored a book together called A Naturalist and Other Beasts, Tales from Life in the Field. Wow, so that passion for conservation, it's been passed down through generations. It's a wonderful thing to see, this ripple effect of inspiration, how one person's dedication can spark a lifelong passion in others.
8:27And speaking of carrying the torch, Simba takes that inspiration from Schaller and creates his own path in Africa, facing unique challenges and making his own mark on the world of conservation. - Exactly, it's like what we were talking about earlier. Conservation is a team effort for sure, but it's also about individuals stepping up and finding their own way to make a difference. - And sometimes those individual paths, they end up weaving together in the most unexpected ways. - You know, it's like those old explorer maps. There's the main route, but then there are all these little side paths leading to hidden treasures. - And in this case, those treasures are the connections, the shared knowledge and the unexpected collaborations that make conservation work so powerful.
9:09- Precisely, and believe it or not, Simba actually stumbles upon even more of these coincidences during his time in the US. - Okay, now you're just pulling my leg. There can't be more, right? - Oh, but there are. You see, Simba ended up at the University of Vermont to give a talk, thanks to an invitation from his friend, Professor Ken Hood. - Okay, I'm following so far. - Well, it turns out Ken knows another guy named John Huyers, and guess what? - Don't tell me John knows Schaller. - Bingo. - I swear, it really is a small world. - It is especially in the tight-knit world of conservation and it gets even better. John actually lives near Schaller in New Hampshire and through John Simba ends up meeting even more fascinating people, including Ben Killam, a renowned Black Bear expert.
9:52- Hold on, Ben Killam. As in the guy who literally wrote the book on Black Bear rehabilitation. - That's the one. - The same guy has been featured in National Geographic. - Yep, and guess what else? - Okay, at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if you told me Killim had a pet panda. - Well, not quite a pet panda, but Killim did spend time in Sichuan working on panda rewilding projects. - You've got to be kidding me. It's like all roads lead back to Sichuan. - It's uncanny, isn't it? Like China becomes this unexpected crossroads for all these conservation efforts. - It just goes to show you that protecting nature truly is a global endeavor. - Absolutely. And the best part is Simba doesn't just benefit from these connections, he actively pays it forward. - Oh, I like that. Tell me more.
10:32- So Simba talks about meeting Fred, the younger brother of his Maasai friend, Simon. Fred was part of a student exchange program in Vermont, and Simba really encourages him to use his education to find new ways to protect the Maasai Mara. And it's incredible wildlife. - That's fantastic. It's like this beautiful cycle of mentorship and inspiration crossing continents and generations. - Exactly, and as Simba reflects on his relationship with Schaller, he realizes it goes beyond their shared love for animals. It's about the values Schaller embodies. Humility, dedication, this insatiable curiosity, and a deep respect for different cultures. - And those qualities shine through and everything Schaller does.
11:13I mean, even in his 80s, he's still actively working and inspiring others. - It's remarkable, isn't it? A powerful reminder that making a difference is a lifelong pursuit. - Absolutely. So what can we learn from all of this? From Schaller's story, from Simba's story, what are the key takeaways here? - Well, I think Simba's journey highlights That conservation requires more than just passion. It takes a global village, a willingness to learn from one another, and the understanding that we're all connected in this effort to protect our planet. Beautifully said. It's not just about saving animals. It's about saving ourselves in the process. Exactly. And maybe, just maybe, each of us has a little bit of that George Schaller spirit within us.
11:53That drive to learn, to explore, to protect, and to inspire. I love that. Okay, so here's something for our listeners to think about. If George Schauer could give one piece of advice to the next generation of conservationists, what might it be? Let us know your thoughts. Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and keep diving deep into the wonders of our world. It's like you're trying to solve this incredibly complex puzzle, and each piece represents a different aspect of the problem. You've got the science, the animals' behavior, but you've also got the human communities living nearby, their needs, their traditions, their relationship with the land. and you can't have one without the other, right? It's about finding that delicate balance between protecting the animals and respecting the people who share their habitat.
12:37- Exactly, and Schaller was a master at navigating those complexities. - So how did he do it? What was his secret sauce? - Well, I think a big part of it was his ability to listen, to really hear what people were saying, both the scientists and the local communities. - Like that old saying, seek first to understand, then to be understood. - Exactly. Schaller never assumed he had all the answers. He recognized that local communities often had generations of knowledge about the animals and the ecosystems they were a part of. - That traditional ecological knowledge can be incredibly valuable. - Absolutely, and Schaller was smart enough to tap into that wisdom. - He saw the value in those different perspectives. - Precisely, and he understood that building trust was essential if he wanted to achieve meaningful conservation outcomes.
13:23- It's about building bridges instead of walls. - Couldn't have said it better myself. And, you know, this approach of Schaller's, it wasn't always the norm, especially back in his day. Oh, so? Well, there was a time when conservation was seen as something that Western scientists did. They would come into a place, study the animals, maybe write a paper, and then leave without really engaging with the local people. So it was more about extracting knowledge than building partnerships. Yeah, unfortunately. But Schaller was different. He recognized that conservation couldn't be successful without the support and involvement of local communities. So, he was ahead of his time, in a way. Absolutely. And his work really helped to shift the paradigm towards a more collaborative and community-based approach to conservation.
14:08And that's a legacy that continues to this day. It certainly does. And I think Simba's story is a testament to that legacy. Well, here you have Simba, this Chinese wildlife expert, drawn to Africa by his passion for lions. I'm facing a whole new set of cultural and logistical challenges. But he persevered, and he did it by embracing those challenges, by learning from the people around him, by building relationships and finding common ground. It's like he took Schaller's blueprint and made it his own. And that's what's so inspiring about Simba's journey. It shows that the principles Schaller championed. They're not limited by geography or culture. They're universal truths that can guide conservation efforts around the world. world. They're about recognizing our shared humanity and our interconnectedness with the natural world. Beautifully said. And you know, when you really delve into the lives of these two men, you start to see all these fascinating parallels, these synchronicities that go beyond just their shared passion for wildlife. Like what? Give me an example. Well, for starters, remember how we talked about Schaller's work with Pandas and Sichuan? Yeah, that was mind blowing.
15:11Well, it turns out that connection runs even deeper than we initially thought. Okay now you're just messing with me. I'm serious. So Simba, during his time in the US, he ends up giving a talk at the University of Vermont. Okay I'm following so far. And it's all thanks to an invitation from his friend Professor Ken Hood. Right. Well as it happens, Ken knows another guy named John Hikers. Wait a minute. Is this going where I think it is? Oh it definitely is. You see John Hikers, he just happens to be good friends with George Scholar. You have got to be kidding me. It's like the universe is conspiring to bring these people together. I know, right? It's just incredible. But it gets even better. John actually lives near Schaller in New Hampshire.
15:53Of course he does. And guess what? Through John Simba ends up meeting even more fascinating people, including Ben Killham, a renowned Black Bear expert. Hold on, Ben Killham, as in the guy who wrote the book on Black Bear Rehabilitation. The one and only. The same guy who's been featured in National Geographic. That's him. You're kidding. What are the chances? I know, right? It's just unbelievable. But here's the kicker. Kilum also spent time in Sichuan working on panda rewilding projects. No way. It's like China is this unexpected hub for conservationists from all over the world. It really is. It's just another reminder that the world of conservation, it's a lot smaller than we think. And those connections, those chance encounters, they can have a ripple effect that extends far beyond our immediate circles.
16:38Exactly. Simba himself, he's a testament to that. - How so? - Well, remember Fred, the younger brother of Simba's Maasai friend Simon. - Yeah, vaguely. - Well, Fred was part of a student exchange program in Vermont, and Simba, he really took Fred under his wing, encouraged him to use his education to find new ways to protect the Maasai Mara. - Oh, that's awesome. It's like that cycle of mentorship and inspiration just keeps going. - It really does, and it all comes back to that fundamental belief that we're all in this together, that protecting our planet requires collaboration across borders and cultures. - It's about recognizing our shared responsibility for the natural world. - Precisely, and you know when Simba looks back on his relationship with Schaller, he realizes that it wasn't just about the animals they both loved, it was about the values Schaller embodied, humility, dedication, insatiable curiosity, and a deep respect for different cultures.
17:31- Values that continue to inspire conservationists today. - Absolutely, and as we delve further into Simba's story, We'll see how those values have shaped his own approach to conservation and how they continue to guide his work even today. It's really quite remarkable when you think about it, this deep connection that Schaller forged with the natural world. It wasn't just about collecting data or writing papers, it was about truly understanding the animals he studied, their behaviors, their social structures, their place in the ecosystem. - It was about seeing the world through their eyes. - Exactly, and that's something that really comes through in Simba's stories about Schaller, the way he talks about him with such reverence and admiration.
18:11- It's clear that Schaller left an indelible mark on him. - Absolutely. And you know, one of the things that always struck me about Schaller was his incredible humility. - Humility, you mean for someone who achieves so much? - Precisely. You'd think someone with his credentials and accomplishments might be a bit, you know, egotistical. - Yeah, a little full of himself. - Exactly, but Schaller was the complete opposite. He was always quick to deflect praise and emphasize the contributions of others. - That's really refreshing to hear. - It is. - Yeah. - And it speaks to his genuine love for the natural world. It wasn't about him or his ego, it was about the animals and the planet. - And that selflessness, that dedication, it's something that clearly resonated with Simba.
18:52- Without a doubt. And you know, another quality that both men shared was this insatiable curiosity. - They were always eager to learn more. - Exactly. Always asking questions, always pushing the boundaries of knowledge. - Even in his 80s, Shower's still out there exploring and inspiring others. - I know, it's incredible, isn't it? A true testament to his lifelong passion for conservation. - It makes you wonder what's his secret? How does he maintain that level of energy and enthusiasm after all these years? - Well, I think it stems from that deep connection he has with nature. It's like he draws energy and inspiration from the wild itself. - It's like his battery gets recharged every time he sets foot in the forest or the savannah. - Exactly. And that's something that Simba clearly tapped into as well.
19:34His own passion for wildlife led him on these incredible adventures, from the mountains of Sichuan to the plains of Africa. - And it all started with a childhood fascination with animals. - Just like Shellor. - Exactly. It's a reminder that even the smallest spark of interest can ignite a lifelong passion for conservation. - So what's the takeaway here? What can we learn from the lives of these two remarkable men? - I think the biggest lesson is that conservation is not a spectator sport. It's not enough to just care about the planet. We need to actively participate in its protection. - It's about getting our hands dirty. - Exactly. Whether it's volunteering with a local conservation group, reducing our own environmental footprint, or simply educating ourselves about the challenges facing our planet.
20:19- Every little bit helps. - Absolutely. And remember conservation is not just about saving species, it's about saving ourselves. - It's about recognizing our interconnectedness with the natural world and understanding that our own well-being is inextricably linked to the health of our planet. - Couldn't have said it better myself. So let's all try to channel our inner George Schaller and make a difference for the planet we call home. - I love that. And on that note, we'd love to hear from you our listeners. If you could ask George Schaller one question, what would it be? Share your thoughts with us on social media using the hashtag #DeepDiveConservation. And who knows, maybe we'll even get to ask Schaller himself your burning questions in a future episode.
20:59Until next time, keep exploring, keep learning, and keep diving deep into the wonders of our world.